Scott Injection: HUGE update

Post by **5.7 Interceptor** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:04 pm

Last Thursday I spent an hour on the phone with Mel Scott... the creator of the Scott injector. His wife Elle

and he put together a large package that was filled with old photos, catalogs, tech papers, original

decals and sent it off to me... all I can say is that this site I have will be getting a very

large face lift over the next month or so. The update will have tons of new info and history.

Doug

www.scottinjection.cjb.net

PS: he doesn't have any extra injectors laying around either.. that was one of my first questions.

Post by **FalconGTHO** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:17 am

Cool. Now, the question is, can FUNCTIONING units be reproduced? And if so, or if someone (yourself) has a functioning original, could/would it be set up to perform as manufactured? In other words, lets have a REAL injector working on a REAL blower in a replica.

Now THAT would be BAD A S S !!!!!

Post by **5.7 Interceptor** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:36 am

It would be posssible to reproduce a functioning unit but it would not be practical for the street, however...Mel did breifly touch on the subject of making one streetable and I also have an article of what one guy did to make his run on the street.

Doug

Post by **Brianesff** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:24 am

lets have a REAL injector working on a REAL blower in a replica.

Now THAT would be BAD A S S !!!!!

Not just a functional blower. (which I already have) But one that can be used part time. I have 95% of this figured out. More later.

Post by **Mitch** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:12 pm

Brian,

Do you have a Weiand 6-71 on a 351C by any chance? I'm debating the relative merits of carb vs. fuel injection, and looking at various intakes. Any thoughts, ideas or preferences?

Also looking for trashed blower casings to play with...

Mitch

Post by **Brianesff** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:41 pm

I have a new Weiand 6-71 that came with the MM project car. The guy I bought from included a blower manifold for a SBC.

He wasn't very mechanically inclined so I don't know if he thought it was the right manifold or not. The engine he partially swapped for the 6 cyl was a 351W.

To keep in the same engine family, I'm building a stroked 400. Basically a tall deck 351C, but with the 4.5" stroker crank I have, it will be about 460.

The 351M/400 got a bad reputation as a smog motor in the mid '70s, but all they need is some Cleveland parts to make them come alive. A guy in Texas has one that made 800HP with modified 4V heads.

I won't be using any standard blower manifold. The problem is the height. The blower will sit about 6" too low for the correct look.

You can buy a blower manifold for either a 351C or 400 but they are expensive. Some guys are converting other carb intakes to use with their blower.

I'm going with a single plane 4V intake and carb for mine. After reading the carb. vs FI article in the May '02 Car Craft I couldn't justify the $$ for a custom FI set up.

The 825 Race Demon ran within 1-3HP of the $5000 Accel 1250CFM FI set up through out the RPM range. I can find better places to spend the $4000 difference in price.

My water pump has to be relocated to make room for an air clutch that will be used to activate the blower. The blower will pump air only, so I don't have to make the Scott FI look alike to do anything other than direct air into the blower.

The carb will be completely enclosed in an air chamber that is pressurised by the blower. When the blower is off the air chamber will be vented to regular atmospheric pressure by a check valve, waste gate, whatever. That part is pretty easy.

For your set up, I'd have to know what you plan to use to advise anything. Is your blower going to be fake or working? There are some less expensive ways to convert to EFI but if it's not a daily driver or driven much in the winter months, I think a carb is good enough.

Check with www.madmaxcars.com for a blower case. I don't think they were trashed, but he had several last June at Carlisle.

I'd rather you didn't limit any opinion to me. Their are a lot of guys who know more than I do and are always willing to help. Try the Cleveland forum for the best advice about 351C specific questions. I'm there almost every day.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/119419

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Post by **PULSE** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:53 am

Brian & All , You defiantly sound like you've got it pretty much figured, however I was looking into the issue also, reading up on blowers, etc. (I'm sorry I can't remember who's site) But I've got a few questions maybe you can answer..

1. Doesn't putting you fuel source after your blower (post compression ) cause an issue with fuel flow? I'm thinking the article I was reading said that you would really need a high pressure fuel pump to push enough fuel to compensate for the added air. (but that could have been talking more for FI) On the other hand having just rebuilt the 390 in my ford and then changing just the air cleaner and filter (much more free breathing then the old stock unit) I had to readjust the carb again..... So I'm guessing my question is that if this (post compression fuel flow) is a problem, and if you make your SC/Blower so it can be turned on and off (compressed and non compressed air) doesn't that just add to the problem (IE require two different fuel settings and psi to support the added volume)?????

2. It also stated that they produce alot of heat through compression? They were saying that while roots type blowers are more efficient that centrifugal (yuck why hide it), they also produce more heat which is why they lost popularity for a while. What do you all think?????

What I was thinking of doing to correct the height issue and make it a bit more streetable (if I'm spending that kind of bank I'm going to drive it) was to leave the fuel on top and put an intercooler underneath... What do you think.... I'm thinking that the vacuum produced during intake would still draw the fuel through the blower even if its not turning???

Or if this is all really a problem could you just a two end fuel systems? A MPFI at the manifold (with waste gate type arrangement for fresh air like you mentioned, (say through the ram air scoops in the hood!) and a secondary FI at the top on the blower. The switch could be made by the same switch that engages the blower itself (and opens the waste gate)???

How was that for a ramble?? Did any of the questions make any sense? If you need to know any thing about Turbine/Jet engines or theory I'm your guy but I'll have to rely on you all for the answers here.. At any rate I agree (while it may not be the most modern or tech advanced way to produce HP) a functioning ON/OFF blower would be absolutely incredible.

Interesting side note: My Dad used to tell me that when he was a kid they would put moth balls in there tanks, to give there old Model Ts and such a boost (a methanol boost I guess)... LOL crazy dad!![/font]

Post by **PULSE** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:07 am

Found'em

This is the article that talks about fuel flow... So wouldn't this be a problem if your trying to run with both the blower on and off?

http://www.musclecarclub.com/library/te ... tion.shtml

This is the article that talks about heat....

http://www.superchargersonline.com/tech ... ecordID=14

????? Hey didn't somebody some where once mention that Toyota had an auto-on/off supercharger on something? I wonder if so how they did it??[/font]

Post by **FalconGTHO** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:08 am

The swiched blower wouldnt work. If the blower stops spinning, wheres the air going to come from? Youd have to have some sort of cumbersome "air door" setup below the s/c to admit air when the blower wasnt turning. An a/c compressor clutch on the blower drive would acheive the switching but its all about getting air in when its off. The only way this ever worked was on late 80s Toyota MR2s. They had a clutched centrifugal s/c but this was used with eletronic fuel injection. This would never work with a carb or even the mechanical Scott injection. However, if you somehow get this to work, I wouldnt adivise the use of an M/400 block. Not as many parts for them as Clevelands and thers NO benefit from using one. If you want more cubes use already tried and true stroker kits for the Cleveland block. Also, Id use a purpose built blower manifold and screw the assempled height. After all this labor youd want it to work right and theres no sense in trying to "Macguyver" some othe manifold not intended for that use just to "get the height right". The thing sticks up too far anyway and if it was REAL it wouldnt be that high. We know its that high so it could clear the actual carb powering the car. Youd likely get a visual obstruction ticket anyway. If you want it to stick up more fab new motor mounts and raise it up that way.

Post by **Mitch** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:13 am

You have some good points, Falcon. Which blower manifold have you been looking at for the Cleveland?

Mitch