COACH GUNS

[the armourer]

Owning a cut-down shotgun like Max's is not that difficult if you live in a state that permits such items. You don't need a so called "Class 3 licence". There is no licence for ownership. There is paperwork involved that appears intimidating but it really isn't. To build a short-barreled shotgun(SBS) or a short-barrelled rifle(SBR) you will need to file a Form 1 with the BATFE. You will need the gun you intend to modify first because the caliber, serial number, barrel length you want to shorten it to, and manufacturer will need to be on the paperwork. You will also need 2 passport type color photos which you will glue in their proper places on the backside of the form. You then take both copies(the Form 1 is a duplicate form) to your sheriff's office or local PD where the senior law enforcement officer will sign it in the place where it states that he has no reason to believe you will use this device for unlawfull purposes. This is known as the CLEO signature(Chief Law Enforcement Officer). Depending on where you live and the local politics, or your CLEO is just plain anti-gun, getting the signature may be difficult. The BATFE will not approve the form without one. At this point you will probably need to ask around the local gun shops or locate a Class 3 dealer in your area to ask who they recommend in the local law enforcement who will sign for you. A judge or a district attorney can also sign. A few years back a friend of mine who lives in a non gun friendly county couldn't get the Sheriff to sign off on his Form 4 for his MG-42 transfer. He was able to get the states district attorney to sign and the paperwork was accepted. While you are dealing with local LE, you will need to be fingerprinted. The local PD or SO will do this for a small charge, usually $10-$15. Just call them and they will tell you where and when they print for the public. There is an additional citizenship form that was recently added to the process but it's easy. The BATFE will send you at no charge all the forms including the finger print cards. Their website lists the phone numbers of all the field offices. Find the one near you and call and tell them what you want to do and they'll mail everything to you.


Now, if you get the CLEO to sign, and you have your print cards ready, you are almost home. You will now have to make out a check in the amount of $200. This is the tax on a SBS(and a SBR). This is a one time payment. There are stories floating around that it needs to be paid every year, that is BS. Only a dealer or manufacturer has to pay to renew his licence every year. Now put everything in a big envelope and mail it to the BATFE address in West Virginia and start waiting. Approval used to take 3 months or more(back in the late 90's, both my Form 4 transfers took exactly 3 months each), but with the new West Virginia facility and the competent new people staffing it, expect those waits to be shorter. Earlier this year I filed a Form 1 to build a SBR AKSU-74N and my paperwork only took 43 days. When your form comes back, it will have a little green stamp affixed in the upper right corner. This is the tax stamp. You will notice the serial number of your weapon written across it. You are now officially legal and approved to cut your shotgun into the pistol configuration. I recommend immediately making photocopies of the form and putting the original in a safe place. Everytime you go out to shoot it or take it anywhere off your property, you should have a copy with you. There is also a form to file if you should have to cross state lines(vacation). The weapon also needs to be kept in a secure place where only you have access to it. Where ever it goes, you go. In other words, you can't loan it out to a friend.





Happy shooting.

[OverheadCam]

Thankfully, police in a liberal democracies have a very hard time preventing citizens from owning weapons/dangerous goods. They can't take the moral highground and stop you from weapons ownership because of what you MIGHT do!...Because the predeliction in the ranks of the Police towards crime and corruption (at least in this country) is well above the average population. And as statistically they are the more likely person to do something illegal, they can't prevent you from owning (without a good reason) a gun, explosives device or radioactive material.


As long as a person is an upstanding, contributing, productive member of society, in the eyes of the law...they're actually more trustworthy than a copper. But if this same person was to then join the Police...they're under the spotlight!


Let 'em take your finger prints, photos, etc (some countries require fired bullets and cases froom each weapon to be held in police store). If you're not doing anything wrong you've got nothing to worry about. The bigger worry is them using your details illegally or planting your Fingerprints/DNA at a crimescene to get themselves out of the frame!

[Foxtrot X-Ray]

I'd also like to point out that "Coach Gun" does NOT necessarily mean a shotgun with an "Illegally" short barrel..





Coach Gun merely means the barrels are Shorter than Standard. (Most of what I've seen on the market run 18.5" - 20"











Oh, and Minor Rant..


Why in the Hell do people think they need to Out bid me on ebay for a nice Holster & cartridge belt for the revolver I linked above!





Been trying for Months.


I See some auctions end without Bids, or sell for less than $20.. but the instant I bid, the thing gets bid up to $60 or more! (I can Buy New for that)





Damnit.


I'll try Gunbroker.. they had some on auction recently.

[the armourer]

Quote: Originally posted by Foxtrot X-Ray on 24 August 2006



I'd also like to point out that "Coach Gun" does NOT necessarily mean a shotgun with an "Illegally" short barrel..



Coach Gun merely means the barrels are Shorter than Standard. (Most of what I've seen on the market run 18.5" - 20"

In the US, the legal barrel lengths are 18" for a shotgun and 16" for a rifle. Black powder firearms are exempt because the govt doesn't consider them firearms. I saw quite a few chopped muzzle-loading shotguns when I was doing Civil War reenacting.

[Foxtrot X-Ray]

Quote: Originally posted by OverheadCam on 20 August 2006

Quote: Originally posted by Foxtrot X-Ray on 20 August 2006

[/i]


After that.. I think I'll save up for a Springfield GI High Capacity 1911 .45

"Son-of-a....."...Here in Oz, we've been restricted to "itty bitty widdle guns" .38/9mm max Cal. and Max 10round mags! (metallic silouette is still open..but there aren't that many clubs around) There were a lot of unhappy handgunners that had to hand over their .45's! For real stopping power were now limited to .357Mag...but since Colt stopped making the Python..there seems little point!

Thought of this reply in the grocery store last night where a magazine cover caught nmy eye..





It seems that there's now an arms company producing the 1911 in .50 Caliber!


That's right.. the big Point-Five-Oh.

[gunslinger2006]

Yeah, I've seen some of the articles about that particular gun. As Jeff Cooper might say, "its a answer in search of a question." Pretty neat. I think I'll stick with my .45 though.

[StepChld]

Quote: Originally posted by the armourer on 25 August 2006



I saw quite a few chopped muzzle-loading shotguns when I was doing Civil War reenacting.

What unit were you with? I myself am with Old Fort Griffin Memorial Regiment and help portray the 5th Texas Regt. of Mtd. Vols. and the 4th US Cav Co. A


And I do have a good short barreled black powdered shotgun...only for some extreme Confederate impressions, otherwise it's the Sharp's for me..as well as a Remi or Colt Navy


cheers,


Step

[OverheadCam]

Quote: Originally posted by Foxtrot X-Ray on 28 August 2006



Thought of this reply in the grocery store last night where a magazine cover caught nmy eye..

It seems that there's now an arms company producing the 1911 in .50 Caliber!

That's right.. the big Point-Five-Oh.

We're also restricted to <.50Cal on both longarms and handguns so no .50Cal MG rifles and no .50AE pistols


however Magnum reserch have just released a 30/30 revolver so you can feed your saddlegun and handgun the same diet.....The muzzleblast of a .50 Desert Eagle is enough to cause me organ damage....30/30 in a pistol?...sorry, but I'm not that brave.

[Foxtrot X-Ray]

Changed my mind.. Decided the next piece after the 12 Gauge will be a http://www.naaminis.com/bwmm.html in .22 Magnum with a .22LR Conversion Cylinder.





One of my Gun-Nut aquantances talked me into it by showing me his Saiga-12. Has a custom made (by Him) Stock with a storage compartment with Mini Survival Kit and the Black Widow Magnum & conversion cylinder all tucked inside.





Oh, My most recent Gun Stuff Project:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/ ... ster01.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/ ... ster02.jpg





Still a little rough.. needs some adjustmants, leather dye and some smoothing.

[the armourer]

Nice leatherwork Foxtrot. Is this your first try at holster building? Now before you dye it any further, wrap the pistol in plastic wrap and dip the holster in warm water. Insert the gun and press the leather into the contours of the outline. You are basically molding the leather to the gun. Leave the gun in until everything dries. This looks really cool. It will also help in retaining the piece in the holster unless you are planning to add a hammer thong at a later date. You have a longer drop here then most Buscedero type rigs and you will find that even with the leg tie-downs you will get alot of movement if you have to run and the piece may jump right out. I put hammer thongs on every revolver holster I make, even the traditional Slim-Jim types. I guarantee that if your weapon falls out of its holster it will land in the most nastiest soil imaginable.





And Stepchld. I saw 2 sawed-offs at the 135th Gettysburg in some Cavalry camps. Dont remember the units. I saw a Reb platoon sergeant toting a fairly short one at an event in Georgia. I've seen a few more here and there over the years. Maybe "quite a few" was a bad choice of words on my part, but they are out there. I tend to notice pieces like that because I'm into odd and unusual weaponry. My personal sawed-off has 13" tubes and I've replaced the pistol cap nipples with musket cap nipples. We've used it in scripted Living History/public shoot-outs to great effect. It's a crowd pleaser. Since we were a Provost unit (64th Ga. Co. D, Provost, Hardy's Brigade. I am a Ordnance Sergeant.) nobody ever gave us any static about having it.


I really need to invest in a digital camera and post some pics of my favorite toys and leather work.